Rob Nelson of The City Pages just published a fascinating conversation with Adam Lowenstein, a scholar from the University of Pittsburgh who studies horror films. In the interview they discuss the controversial Hostel II and question whether or not scary flicks are yet addressing 9/11. Most interesting is Lowenstein's assertion that horror isn't about catharsis, but rather outing catharsis as an easy way out.
Lowenstein:
Horror's dark gift is to remind us that the tragic events we think we've gotten over and understood always come back to haunt us. And that's an incredibly valuable gift. I share Eli Roth's sense about this. I find these films to be incredibly optimistic even in their darkest, cruelest moments. What the films share is a sense that it's still worth communicating with an audience: It's still worth getting a point across, still worth making someone feel a certain discomfort; it's worth having that kind of commitment and confidence. There's hope that comes with that—a hope that things can get better.
18 comments:
Horror's dark gift is to remind us that the tragic events we think we've gotten over and understood always come back to haunt us. And that's an incredibly valuable gift.
Umm, why is that an incredibly valuable gift?
I share Eli Roth's sense about this. I find these films to be incredibly optimistic even in their darkest, cruelest moments.
optimistic? how so? (beyond man's ability to keep on going no matter what)
What the films share is a sense that it's still worth communicating with an audience: It's still worth getting a point across, still worth making someone feel a certain discomfort; it's worth having that kind of commitment and confidence. There's hope that comes with that—a hope that things can get better.
Huh? Does that even make sense? I think ALL films share a sense that it, whatever it is, is worth communicating with the audience, otherwise why make the film?
And yea, if you are going to try and connect 'getting your point acoss' is basically succeeding at connecting. Not getting your point across, or not even trying to get your point across, that's failing at connecting. Sounds like he is throwing out doubletalk drivel.
Now, when he says "still worth making someone feel a certain discomfort", if that is what the audience desires, then sure, yea, it's worth delivering that service to them, just like it's worth delivering anything to the requesting customer. But does it have any value beyond that? What is the value in making someone fell discomfort? If it has value, how far do we take that? Is there value in grabbing random people off the street and torturing them just so they feel discomfort?
it's worth having that kind of commitment and confidence. There's hope that comes with that—a hope that things can get better.
Huh? Again, why? Sure, commitment and confidence are usually good things, but why specifically is delivering horror with commitment and confidence different than say delivering pizza? This sounds to me like he is stating a basic understood truth, and trying to spin it specific to horror films. I don't see how horror films would be a special catagory of this concept.
And where does hope come in? Seems to me he is refering back to delivering discomfort to the audience, how does delivering discomfort also deliver the hope that things will get better?
I think what he's saying is that we're not alone in our everyday fear and occasional terror. To be haunted is not an exception, but the norm. The optimism is in the eventual triumph over death that occurs in early every horror film. As far as communicating goes, he's referring to communicating the specific idea that exploring horrific events can have a life-affirming result. And his close, I think is exactly what you're saying. He's attempting to validate horror as a product/piece of art/and or communication just like any other. He's saying that its worthwhile to try to excel in these kinds of communication. It's an affirmation of supposed trash genres like horror.
Also, it should be noted that nearly everything that the guy said is opinion. It's okay to disagree with him, but it's not really productive to dissect his statement line by line. Instead, tell us why you think horror movies aren't what he says they are.
Becasue the people that come up with these senarios in thier heads scare me. Why go to a place like that? I hope it is a release so they don't actually do it. Just the copy-catrs.
Doesn't everybody go to these places from time to time? Morbid thoughts are part of the human condition.
"It's okay to disagree with him, but it's not really productive to dissect his statement line by line."
why not? If a person states his opinion, he is opening it up to be challenged. Taking it apart is just one of many ways to challenge it.
As far as what is productive about challenging an opinion? It's like taking out the trash. You don't actually produce anything, but you clear the deck. Also, when opinion is stated by 'experts' such as college professors, it sometimes is easily mistake for fact. I am a big one for challenging facts too.
Specifically, this is the part I really have a problem with
CP: When I talked to Roth recently, he said he holds hope in the fact that soldiers in Iraq have thanked him for Hostel, for giving them "tools" in much the same way that you're talking about. A word like catharsis seems insufficient to describe the effect that you and Roth are talking about.
Lowenstein: I agree with you. I think that catharsis is among the least valuable assets that one could gain from a horror film. Because catharsis is really all about...
CP: Closure, right?
Lowenstein: Closure, yes. And forgetting—"getting over" something. What these horror films remind us, of course, is that the trauma is never really over—that we haven't remembered it enough before we can forget it. I think the real value of the horror film is to remind us that catharsis is too easy, too artificial, and too closed.
I think he is totally wrong. If a person is really screwed up emotionally, ESPECIALLY A KID WE AS A SOCIETY GIVE MINIMUM WAGE THEN THROW HIM INTO A DESERT FULL OF PEOPLE TRYING TO BLOW HIM UP, it is my personal believe that repairing those people is a HUGELY important task. Even the smallest grain of stand shifted in this direction to me has great merit.
'Closure is forgetting' What? I think that is the exact opposite of what closure is. Forgetting is repressing the events that you are unable to currently bring to closure. Closure is being able to finish that chapter of your life, put it in perspective, and move on.
People talk about the families of victims of violent crime going to court every day, and getting closure when the sentence is handed down. This in no way means they have forgotten about their loved one. Even a funeral is about closure. When the body is lowered into the grave, it is time to get back to taking care of the living.
I think catharsis is very important to let of steam that is constantly building. Just because you have a cathartic moment does not mean you are totally cleansed of all trace, it simply helps you get back to normal levels.
Maybe there is a certian segment of people so diviorced from reality that it is an 'incredibly valuable gift' to be reminded that horrors come back and haunt you later, but I'd tell those people if they really need to be reminded of this, try working in a homeless kitchen for a day, or stop by the VA, or just stand back and watch 60 year old men touch names on the vietnam war memorial.
Also, he totally admits that such films as these desensitize the viewers to real world events.
Now, desensitization is not always a bad thing, however, it is very real and we should be concerned with it, and be careful in how it is applied/achieved.
I recall reading in the Strib a study was done on how to increase awareness and compassion for (and eventually increase the pressure so action is taken)the tragedy that is going on in Darfur. The study showed they would be more successful showing the plight of puppies than of people. Why? I am guessing because we americans are very desensitized to seeing certian types of violence.
I recall being in the theater opening day for "Independence Day" and how no one was really terribly moved when the aliens were blowing up shit and people were dying horrible deaths, some of the supporting cast were in a tunnel with a fireball heading right at them, and the golden retreiver was about to get roasted, but barely jumped to safety. The audience was more concerned with the dog than the mash of people behind him who did get burned to a crisp. I talked to people afterwards who said they would have cried if the dog had died.
Am I trying to lay the inactivity of the outside world in relation to the tragedy of Darfur at the feet of the horror movie industry, of course not.
I do think we are less moved by scenes on the news of violence than we would be had we lived our lives never seeing a single horror movie.
Look, I don't want to leave the impression that I think horror movies are bad.
I think one real purpose they can and do serve is to bring people back to equilibrium, be it a war scared veteran who finds a cathartic element, or a person who really does need to be reminded that what we think we have gotten over can often rear it's ugly head again later in life.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be very careful how we produce and handle such films...just like we should be careful how we handle a chainsaw!
I agree we should be very careful what media we allow to be shown to the public at large. That's why it's so important to have responsible governmental oversight of the horror film industry. How much violence could have been avoided, and how much might we avoid in the future?
Andrew, in your last post you pretty much said what they were arguing in the story, that the ability to look at catharsis as one step, rather than a closed door is an unique trait of horror films.
And, Mike: Really?
Gus: No, not really. I love horror movies, and I don't believe we must be careful with them like we're careful with chainsaws.
Whew.
Beware. Dock contains irony.
bah! edit not delete!
anyways...
I am not calling for governmental intervention, I am calling for individual consumers to act responsibly. Ballot, Soap, Jury, Ammo, got to choose which box for which task. I'd say Soap works just fine here.
And his close, I think is exactly what you're saying. He's attempting to validate horror as a product/piece of art/and or communication just like any other. He's saying that its worthwhile to try to excel in these kinds of communication
I reread his closing, and I don't get that at ALL. I still see him saying there is some intrinsic value in horror beyond 'giving the customer what he wants = good' No, I don't think the optimism he is continually refering to is man's ability to keep on going even in horrid conditions, if it is he needs to be more clear on that.
Andrew, in your last post you pretty much said what they were arguing in the story, that the ability to look at catharsis as one step, rather than a closed door is an unique trait of horror films.
I also don't see them making this argument either. To me it is pretty clear they are totally dismissing catharsis, whereas I view catharsis as quite powerful and important, but NOT a final stop, really it catharsis is the grease to get by the rough spots.
let me clarify what I mean by being careful. I am not calling for government action, I am calling for consumers to be aware. In the same way you cannot go to McDonalds drivethough and eat any amount of anything with impunity, the customer should be careful, realize the food is very low in nutrition and very high in fats, and act accordingly.
ability to look at catharsis as one step, rather than a closed door is an unique trait of horror films.
Aside from the opinion that I DON'T think this is their argument, I totally disagree that horror movies have the unique ability to look at catharsis as one step.
For starters, these guys dismiss catharsis as closure, finality, and I argued that catharsis may be closing a chapter, but the core item continues with you (missing your murdered family member even after the criminal is convicted)
I as not a horror film, and I was able to look at catharsis in this manner, hence it is not unique trait of horror movies.
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